FRIDAY, JULY 20, 1787.

JOURNAL

Friday July 20. 1787.

It was moved and seconded to postpone the consideration of the clause, respecting the number of Electors, entered on the Journal yesterday in order to take up the following namely,

Resolved that for the first election of the supreme Executive the proportion of Electors shall be as follows, namely

On the question to postpone

it passed in the affirmative [Ayes-6; noes-4.]1

It was moved and seconded to refer the last motion to a Committee

which passed in the negative. [Ayes-3; noes-7.]2 It was moved and seconded to add one Elector to the States of New Hampshire and Georgia.

which passed in the affirmative. [Ayes-6; noes-4.] The last motion having been misunderstood, it was moved and seconded that it be put again and on the question to give an additional Elector to each of the States of New Hampshire and Georgia

1 Vote 187, Detail of Ayes and Noes, which notes that the proposition was "Mr. Gerry's".

2 Vote 188, Detail of Ayes and Noes. Cf. Madison's report of these proceedings.

Friday

JOURNAL

July 20

7.]

it passed in the negative. [Ayes-3; noes — On the question to agree to the above resolution respecting the first election of the supreme Executive

it passed in the affirmative. [Ayes-6; noes-4.] It was moved and seconded to agree to the following resolution Resolved That the Electors respectively shall not be Members of the National Legislature, or Officers of the Union, or eligible to the office of supreme Magistrate

which passed in the affirmative.

It was moved and seconded to agree to the following clause of the 9th resolution reported from the Committee of the whole House namely

"To be removable on impeachment and conviction of malpractice or neglect of duty"

It was moved and seconded to postpone the consideration of the last motion

which passed in the negative. [Ayes-2; noes- 8.] It was moved and seconded to agree to the clause

2.]

which passed in the affirmative [Ayes-8; noes — It was moved and seconded to agree to the following clause namely

"to receive a fixed compensation for the devotion of his time to public service"

which passed unan: in the affirmative [Ayes — 10;

It was moved and seconded to agree to the following clause, namely

noes

"to be paid out of the national Treasury"

which passed unan: in the affirmative [Ayes 10; 0.]3

Vote 194, Detail of Ayes and Noes.

In the Detail of Ayes and Noes at this point the secretary of the Convention did something which was quite misleading: He wrote the question in the blank of 195, but recorded the votes in the space below, i. e., in 196. When the first question was taken on August 16, he was evidently unprepared and recorded the vote in the first available blank which happened to be that of 195, and wrote the question "14 sect. of the 6 article" after the question the vote of which had been recorded. This accounts for New Hampshire's vote, and Madison notes that Massachusetts was absent when this vote was taken on August 16. When John Quincy Adams prepared the printed

[End of sixth loose sheet]

no

aye no aye aye no no no no

[189]

no

aye

no no aye no no aye aye aye aye To postpone Mr Ellsworth's motion for electing the Executive

to take up Mr Gerry's

To refer Mr Gerry's motion to a Committee of detail

aye aye no no aye no aye aye To add One Elector to the States of Georgia and New

Hampshire

The last motion repeated

To agree to the proposition for the first election of the Supreme
Executive, offered by Mr Gerry.

no no no no no no aye no To postpone the consideration of the clause which respects the impeachment of the Executive

aye aye aye aye aye aye no aye To agree to the clause respecting the impeachmt of the Executive.

aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye To receive a fixed compensation for the devotion of his time to Public service. unanimous

no aye aye aye aye aye aye aye To be paid out of the national Treasury unanimous 14 sect. of the 6 article

July 20

Ayes

Noes

Divided

Friday

JOURNAL

and then the House adjourned till to-morrow at II o'Clock A. M.

MADISON

Friday July 20-in Convention

The (postponed) Ratio of Electors for appointing the Executive; to wit I for each State whose inhabitants do not exceed 100,000, &c. being taken up.

5

* Mr. (Madison) observed that this would make in time all or nearly all the the States equal. Since there were few that would not in time contain the number of inhabitants entitling them to 3 Electors; that this ratio ought either to be made temporary, or so varied as that it would adjust itself to the growing population of the States.

Mr. Gerry moved that in the 1st. instance the Electors should be allotted to the States in the following ratio: to N. H. 1. Mas. 3. R. I. 1. Cont. 2. N. Y. 2. N. J. 2. Pa. 3. Del. 1. Md. 2. Va. 3. N. C. 2. S. C. 2. Geo. 1."

On the question to postpone in order to take up this motion. of Mr. Gerry. (It passed in the affirmative.)

Mas. ay. Cont. no. N. J. no. ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

Pa. ay. Del. no. Md. no. Va. [Ayes-6; noes 4.]

Mr. Elseworth moved that 2 Electors be allotted to N. H. Some rule ought to be pursued; and N. H. has more than 100,000 inhabitants. He thought it would be proper also to allot 2. to Georgia.

Mr. Broom & Mr. Martin moved to postpone Mr. Gerry's allotment of Electors, leaving a fit ratio to be reported by

Journal he failed to solve this difficulty. He accordingly ignored Vote 196, and ascribed the vote of August 16 to the first question in the blank of 195. He ascribed the vote of New Hampshire to Massachusetts and recorded the total as "Yeas, 9; nay, 1," in spite of the fact that the Journal specifically stated that the question was "passed unan: in the affirmative." Madison was misled by this, see below.

4 Vote 197, Detail of Ayes and Noes.

$100,000 is not as Madison reported this on July 19, but accords with the Journal. Madison reports this same motion made July 19, but perhaps not seconded and now repeated.

Friday

MADISON

July 20

the Committee to be appointed for detailing the Resolutions.

Pa. no. Del. ay. Md. ay. Va. no. [Ayes

On this motion. Mas-no. Ct. no. N. J. ay. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no. 3; noes 7.] Mr. Houston 2ded. the motion of Mr. Elseworth to add another Elector to N. H. & Georgia. On the Question:

Mas. no. Ct ay. N. J. no. Pa. no. Del. no. Md no. Va. no. N. C. no. S. C.-ay-Geo-ay. [Ayes -3; noes-7.]'

Mr. Williamson moved as an amendment to Mr. Gerry's allotment of Electors in the Ist. instance that in future elections of the Natl. Executive, the number of Electors to be appointed by the several States shall be regulated by their respective numbers of Representatives in the 1st. branch pursuing as nearly as may be the present proportions.

On question on Mr. Gerry's ratio of Electors

Mas. ay. Ct ay. N. J. no. Pa. ay. Del. no. Md. no. Va. ay-N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. no. [Ayes-6; noes- 4.]

"to be removeable on impeachment and conviction (for) malpractice or neglect of duty". See Resol: 9:

Mr. Pinkney & Mr Govr. Morris moved to strike out this part of the Resolution. Mr P. observd. he (ought not to) be impeachable whilst in office

Mr. Davie. If he be not impeachable whilst in office, he will spare no efforts or means whatever to get himself re-elected. He considered this as an essential security for the good behaviour of the Executive.8

Mr Wilson concurred in the necessity of making the Executive impeachable whilst in office.

Mr. Govr. Morris. He can do no criminal act without Coadjutors who may be punished. In case he should be re-elected, that will be sufficient proof of his innocence. Besides who is to impeach? Is the impeachment to suspend his functions. If it is not the mischief will go on. If it is the impeachment will be nearly equivalent to a displacement,

'Madison's account of these proceedings differs from the Journal, but the result is the same.

Crossed out: "To punish him when”.