Friday MADISON September 7 consideration of the clause in order to take up the following "That it be an instruction to the Committee of the States to prepare a clause or clauses for establishing an Executive Council, as a Council of State for the President of the U. States, to consist of six members, two of which from the Eastern, two from the middle, and two from the Southern States, with a Rotation and duration of office similar to those of the Senate; such Council to be appointed by the Legislature or by the Senate". Doctor Franklin 2ded. the motion. We seemed he said too much to fear cabals in appointments by a number, and to have too much confidence in those of single persons. Experience shewed that caprice, the intrigues of favorites & mistresses, &c were nevertheless the means most prevalent in monarchies. among instances of abuse in such modes of appointment, he mentioned the many bad Governors appointed in G. B. for the Colonies. He thought a Council would not only be a check on a bad President but be a relief to a good one. Mr. Govr. Morris. The question of a Council was considered in the Committee, where it was judged that the Presidt. by persuading his Council- to concur in his wrong measures, would acquire their protection for them— Mr. Wilson approved of a Council, in preference to making the Senate a party to appointmts. Mr. Dickinson was for a Council. It wd. be a singular thing if the measures of the Executive were not to undergo some previous discussion before the President Mr Madison was in favor of the instruction to the Committee proposed by Col. Mason. (The motion of Mr. Mason was negatived. Maryd. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay- N. H. no. Mas. no. Ct. no. N. J. no Pa. no. Del. no. Va. no. N C no.) 23 [Ayes-3; noes-8.] On the question, "authorizing the President to call for the opinions of the Heads of Departments, in writing:" it 23 Taken from Journal, which is in erorr as to the vote. See above note 5. Friday MCHENRY September 7 passed in the affirmative,24 N. H. only being no.* (The clause was then unanimously agreed to.) Mr Williamson & Mr. Spaight moved "that no Treaty of Peace affecting Territorial rights shd be made without the concurrence of two thirds of the (members of the Senate present.) Mr. King It will be necessary to look out for securities for some other rights, if this principle be established; he moved to extend the motion to "all present rights of the U. States". Adjourned 25 * (Not so stated in the Printed Journal; but comformable to the result afterwards appearing. passed in the) MCHENRY Made some further progress in the report. Mr. Mason moved to postpone the section giving the President power to require the advice of the heads of the great departments to take up a motion to appoint a council of State, to consist of 6 members two from the Eastern, two from the middle and two from the Southern States - who should in conjunction with the President make all appointments and be an advisory body -to be elected by the legislature, to be in for 6 years with such succession as provided for the Senate. 3 States for postponing 8 against it so it was lost. Adjourned. 24 Crossed out "N. H. ay & all the rest ay". See Vote 482, Detail of Ayes and Noes, and note 5. * See further Appendix A, CIV. SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 8, 1787. JOURNAL Saturday September 8. 1787. It was moved and seconded to strike the words ("except Treaties of Peace") out of the 4 sect. of the report. which passed in the affirmative. [Ayes-8; noes-3.] It was moved and seconded to strike out the last clause of the 4 sect. of the report which passed in the negative [Ayes divided - 1.] I; noes 9; It was moved and seconded to agree to the following amend ment. "two thirds of all the Members of the Senate to make a treaty" which passed in the negative [Ayes-3; noes - - 8.] It was moved and seconded to agree to the following amend ment. 'a majority of all the Members of the Senate to make a treaty" which passed in the negative [Ayes-5; noes — - 6.] It was moved and seconded to agree to the following amend ment. "No Treaty shall be made unless two thirds of the whole number of Senators be present which passed in the negative. [Ayes 5; noes 6.] It was moved and seconded to agree to the following amend ment. "But no Treaty shall be made before all the Members of "the Senate are summoned and shall have time to attend" which passed in the negative [Ayes-3; noes - 8.] It was moved and seconded to agree to the following amend ment Saturday JOURNAL September 8 noes-6.] "neither shall any appointment be made as aforesaid unless to offices established by the Constitution or by law which passed in the negative [Ayes-5; noesIt was moved and seconded to insert the words "or other high crimes and misdemeanors against the State" after the word "bribery" which passed in the affirmative [Ayes-7; noes It was moved and seconded to strike out the words "by the Senate" after the word "conviction" 4.] which passed in the Negative [Ayes-2; noes - 9.] It was moved and seconded to strike out the word "State" after the word "against" and to insert the words "United States" which passed in the affirmative. ["unanimous"] On the question to agree to the last clause of the report. it passed in the affirmative [Ayes 10; noes 1.] It was moved and seconded to add the following clause after the words "United States" "The Vice President and other civil Officers of the United "States shall be removed from Office on impeachment and "conviction as aforesaid" which passed in the affirmative ["unanimous"] It was moved and seconded to amend the 3rd clause of the report, entered on the Journal of the 5 instant, to read as follows instead of the 12 sect. 6 article. "all Bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House "of representatives: but the Senate may propose or concur "with amendments as on other bills." no money shall be drawn from the Treasury but in consequence of appropriations made by law. which passed in the affirmative.1 [all bills for raising revenue shall originate in the Ho of representatives Ayes 9; noes 2.]2 It was moved and seconded to amend the 3rd clause of the report, entered on the Journal of the 4 instant, to read as follows 1 Vote 496, Detail of Ayes and Noes. No vote being recorded, the assumption is that it was unanimous as in Votes 493 and 495. * Vote 497, Detail of Ayes and Noes. DETAIL OF AYES AND NOES Questions ayes noes divided Saturday JOURNAL no aye no no aye aye aye aye To strike out "except Treaties of Peace." 396668 38 6 no no no no no aye aye aye 3rds of all the Members of the Senate to make a treaty 6 aye no no no no aye no aye neither shall any appointment be made as aforesaid unless to offices estab- 5 no no aye no no no no no To strike out the clause respectg Treaties. no aye no no [492] no no no [493] To insert the "United States" instead of the "State" no aye no no aye no no no To strike out the words "by the Senate" unanimous. aye aye no aye aye aye aye aye aye To agree to the clause respectg the impeachmt of the Presidt The Vice Presidt and other civil officers of the U. S. shall be removed from But the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as in other Bills. aye no aye aye no aye no aye He may convene both or either of the Houses on extraordinary occasions. 7 2 sect. IO art. no aye aye aye aye aye no no To reconsider the number of representatives |