Tuesday MADISON July 17 powers. He conceived it to be absolutely necessary to a well constituted Republic that the two first shd. be kept distinct & independent of each other. Whether the plan proposed by the motion was a proper one was another question, as it depended on the practicability of instituting a tribunal for impeachmts. as certain & as adequate in the one case as in the other. On the other hand, respect for the mover entitled his proposition to a fair hearing & discussion, until a less objectionable expedient should be applied for guarding agst. a dangerous union of the Legislative & Executive departments. Col. Mason. This motion was made some time ago, & negatived by a very large majority. He trusted that it wd. be again negatived. It wd. be impossible to define the misbehaviour in such a manner as to subject it to a proper trial; and perhaps still more impossible to compel so high an offender holding his office by such a tenure to submit to a trial. He considered an Executive during good behavior as a softer name only for an Executive for life. And that the next would be an easy step to hereditary Monarchy. If the motion should finally succeed, he might himself live to see such a Revolution. If he did not it was probable his children or grandchildren would. He trusted there were few men in that House who wished for it. No state he was sure had so far revolted from Republican principles as to have the least bias in its favor. Mr. Madison, was not apprehensive of being thought to favor any step towards monarchy. The real object with him was to prevent its introduction. Experience had proved a tendency in our governments to throw all power into the Legislative vortex. The Executives of the States are in general little more than Cyphers; the legislatures omnipotent. If no effectual check be devised for restraining the instability & encroachments of the latter, a revolution of some kind or other would be inevitable. The preservation of Republican Govt. therefore required some expedient for the purpose, but required evidently at the same time that in devising it, the genuine principles of that form should be kept in view. Mr. Govr. Morris was as little a friend to monarchy as any gentleman. He concurred in the opinion that the way to Tuesday MADISON July 17 keep out monarchial Govt. was to establish such a Repub. Govt. as wd. make the people happy and prevent a desire of change. Docr. McClurg was not so much afraid of the shadow of monarchy as to be unwilling to approach it; nor so wedded to Republican Govt. as not to be sensible of the tyrannies that had been & may be exercised under that form. It was an essential object with him to make the Executive independent of the Legislature; and the only mode left for effecting it, after the vote destroying his ineligibility a second time, was to appoint him during good behavior. On the question for inserting "during good behavior" in place of 7 years ((with a) re-eligibility) (it passed in the negative.) 16 Mas. no. Ct. no. N. J. ay. Pa. ay. Del. ay. Md. no. Va. ay. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.* [Ayes 4; noes 6.] On the motion "to strike out seven years" (it passed in the negative.) Mas. ay. Ct. no. N. J. no. Pa. ay. Del. ay. Md. no. Va. no. N. C. ay. S. C. no. Geo. no.t (It was now unanimously agreed that the vote which had struck out the words "to be ineligible a second time" should be reconsidered tomorrow.)17 Adjd.18 -This vote is not to be considered as any certain index of opinion, as a number in the affirmative probably had it chiefly in view to alarm those attached to a dependence of the Executive on the Legislature, & thereby facilitate some final arrangement of a contrary tendency. (The avowed friends of an Excutive, "during good behaviour" were not more than three or four nor is it certain they would finally have adhered to such a tenure. An independence of the three great departments of of each other, as far as possible, and the responsibility of all to the will of the community seemed to be generally admitted as the true basis of a well constructed government.) †There was no debate on this motion the apparent object of many in the affirmative was to secure the reeligibility by shortening the term, and of many in the negative to embarrass the plan of referring the appointment & dependence of the Eexcutive to the Legislature. 16 See Appendix A, CCLXX, CCXCV. 17 Taken from Journal which is in error, see above note 4. 18 See further Appendix A, LXIV. WEDNESDAY, JULY 18, 1787. JOURNAL Wednesday July 18. 1787. [To reconsider the clause which makes the Executive reeligible Ayes-8; noes - 0. To reconsider immediately Ayes -6; noes-2. To reconsider the clause to-morrow Ayes-8; noes-o.]1 It was moved and seconded to postpone the consideration of the following clause in the 9th resolution reported from the Committee of the whole House namely which passed unanimously in ye affirmative It was moved and seconded to postpone the consideration of the remaining clause of the 9th and the 10th resolution in order to take up the 11th resolution. which passed in the affirmative [Ayes-4; noes — 3; divided-1.] On the question to agree to the following clause of the 11th resolution namely "That a national Judiciary be established" it passed unanimously in the affirmative On the question to agree to the following clause of the 11th resolution namely "To consist of One supreme Tribunal it passed unanimously in the affirmative It was moved and seconded to strike out the words "second branch of the national Legislature" and to insert the words "national executive" in the II. resolution which passed in the negative. [Ayes-2; noes-6.] 1 Votes 171-173, Detail of Ayes and Noes. It required a unanimous vote to reconsider immediately. Upon the assignment of these questions to this day, see July 17 note 4. Wednesday JOURNAL July 18 It was moved and seconded to alter the 3rd cause of the 11th resolution so as to read as follows, namely, - The Judges of which shall be nominated and appointed by the Executive by and with the advice and consent of the second Branch of the Legislature of the United States and every such nomination shall be made at least to such appointment days prior which passed in the negative [Ayes 4; noes 4.] It was moved and seconded to alter the 3rd clause of the 11th resolution so as to read as follows namely That the Judges shall be nominated by the Executive and such nomination shall become an appointment if not disagreed to within days by two thirds of the second branch of the Legislature. It was moved and seconded to postpone the consideration of the last amendment which was unanimously agreed to On the question to agree to the following clause of the 11th resolution namely "to hold their Offices during good behaviour" it passed unanimously in the affirmative On the question to agree to the following clause of the eleventh resolution namely "to receive, punctually, at stated times a fixed compensa"tion for their services it passed unanimously in the affirmative It was moved and seconded to strike the words "Encrease or" out of the eleventh resolution which passed in the affirmative [Ayes-6; noes—2.] On the question to agree to the clause as amended namely "to receive, punctually, at stated times, a fixed compensation "for their services in which no diminution shall be made so "as to affect the Persons actually in Office at the time of such "diminution" it passed unanimously in the affirmative On the question to agree to the 12th resolution namely "That the national Legislature be empowered to appoint "inferior Tribunals" Wednesday noes-o.] it passed unanimously in the affirmative [Ayes—9; It was moved and seconded to strike the words "impeachments of national Officers" out of the 13th reso lution which passed unanimously in the affirmative It was moved and seconded to alter the 13th resolution so as to read as follows namely That the jurisdiction of the national Judiciary shall extend to cases arising under laws passed by the general Legislature, and to such other questions as involve the National peace and harmony which passed unanimously in the affirmative On the question to agree to the 14 resolution namely Resolved That provision ought to be made for the admission of States lawfully arising within the limits of the United States, whether from a voluntary junction of government and territory, or otherwise with the consent of a number of voices in the national Legislature less than the whole. it passed unanimously in the affirmative On the question to agree to the first clause of the 15th resolution reported from the Committee of the whole House it passed in the negative [Ayes-2; noes7.] On the question to agree to the last clause of the 15th resolu tion it passed unanimously in the negative It was moved and seconded to alter the sixteenth resolution so as to read as follows namely That a republican form of Government shall be guaranteed to each State and that each State shall be protected against foreign and domestic violence noes which passed in the affirmative [To agree to the 16th resolution as amended Ayes — 9; - o.] 2 - And then the House adjourned till to-morrow at II O'Clock A. M. * Vote 180, Detail of Ayes and Noes. |