Saturday MADISON August 18 Instead of "to build and equip fleets" -"to provide & maintain a navy" agreed to nem. con as a more convenient definition of the power. "To make rules for the Government and regulation of the land & naval forces," added from the existing Articles of Confederation. Mr. L. Martin and Mr. Gerry now regularly moved "provided that in time of peace the army shall not consist of more than thousand men.' 99 10 Genl. Pinkney asked whether no troops were ever to be raised untill an attack should be made on us? Mr. Gerry. if there be no restriction, a few States may establish a military Govt. Mr. Williamson, reminded him of Mr. Mason's motion for limiting the appropriation of revenue as the best guard in this case. Mr. Langdon saw no room for Mr. Gerry's distrust of the Representatives of the people. Mr. Dayton. preparations for war are generally made in peace; and a standing force of some sort may, for ought we know, become unavoidable. He should object to no restrictions consistent with these ideas. The motion of Mr. Martin & Mr. Gerry was disagreed to nem. con. Mr. Mason moved as an additional power "to make laws for the regulation and discipline of the Militia of the several States reserving to the States the appointment of the Officers". He considered uniformity as necessary in the regulation of the Militia throughout the Union. Genl Pinkney mentioned a case during the war in which a dissimilarity in the militia of different States had produced the most serious mischiefs. Uniformity was essential. The States would never keep up a proper discipline of their militia. Mr. Elseworth was for going as far in submitting the militia to the Genl Government as might be necessary, but thought the motion of Mr. Mason went too far. He (moved) 10 On this motion see Appendix A, CLVIII (51), CXCII. Saturday MADISON August 18 that the militia should have the same arms (& exercise and be under rules established by the Genl Govt. when in actual service of the U. States and when States neglect to provide regulations for militia, it shd. be regulated & established by the Legislature of U. S.)" The whole authority over the Militia ought by no means to be taken away from the States whose consequence would pine away to nothing after such a sacrifice of power. He thought the Genl Authority could not sufficiently pervade the Union for such a purpose, nor could it accommodate itself to the local genius of the people. It must be vain to ask the States to give the Militia out of their hands. Mr Sherman 2ds. the motion. Mr Dickenson. We are come now to a most important. matter, that of the sword. His opinion was that the States never would nor ought to give up all authority over the Militia. He proposed to restrain the general power to one fourth part at a time, which by rotation would discipline the whole Militia. Mr. Butler urged the necessity of submitting the whole Militia to the general Authority, which had the care of the general defence. Mr. Mason- had suggested the idea of a select militia. He was led to think that would be in fact as much as the Genl. Govt could advantageously be charged with. He was afraid of creating insuperable objections to the plan. He withdrew his original motion, and moved a power "to make laws for regulating and disciplining the militia, not exceeding one tenth part in any one year, and reserving the appointment of officers to the States." Genl Pinkney, renewed Mr. Mason's original motion. For a part to be under the genl. and a part under the State Govts. wd be an incurable evil. he saw no room for such distrust of the Genl Govt. Mr. Langdon 2ds. Genl. Pinkney's renewal. He saw no more reason to be afraid of the Genl. Govt than of the State Govts. He was more apprehensive of the confusion of the different authorities on this subject, than of either. 11 Revised from Journal. Saturday MADISON August 18 Mr Madison thought the regulation of the Militia naturally appertaining to the authority charged with the public defence. It did not seem in its nature to be divisible between two distinct authorities. If the States would trust the Genl. Govt. with a power over the public treasure, they would from the same consideration of necessity grant it the direction of the public force. Those who had a full view of the public situation wd. from a sense of the danger, guard agst. it: the States would not be separately impressed with the general situation, nor have the due confidence in the concurrent exertions of each other. Mr. Elseworth- considered the idea of a select militia as impracticable; & if it were not it would be followed by a ruinous declension of the great body of the Militia. The States will never submit to the same militia laws. Three or four shilling's as a penalty will enforce obedience better in New England, than forty lashes in some other places. Mr. Pinkney thought the power such an one as could not be abused, and that the States would see the necessity of surrendering it. He had however but a scanty faith in Militia. There must be (also) a real military force- This alone can (effectually answer the purpose.) The United States had been making an experiment without it, and we see the consequence in their rapid approaches toward anarchy.* Mr Sherman, took notice that the States might want their Militia for defence agst invasions and insurrections, and for enforcing obedience to their laws. They will not give up this point In giving up that of taxation, they retain a concurrent power of raising money for their own use. Mr. Gerry thought this the last point remaining to be surrendered. If it be agreed to by the Convention, the plan will have as black a mark as was set on Cain. He had no such confidence in the Genl. Govt. as some Gentlemen possessed, and believed it would be found that the States have not. Col. Mason. thought there was great weight in the remarks of Mr. Sherman- and moved an exception to his motion (This had reference to the disorders particularly which had occurred in Massachts. which had called for the interposition of the federal troops.) * Saturday MCHENRY August 18 "of such part of the Militia as might be required by the States for their own use." Mr. Read doubted the propriety of leaving the appointment of the Militia officers in the States. In some States they are elected by the legislatures; in others by the people themselves. He thought at least an appointment by the State Executives ought to be insisted on. On committing to the grand Committee last appointed, the latter motion of Col. Mason, & the original one revived by Gel Pinkney N. H- ay. Mas. ay. Ct no. N- J. no. Pa ay. Del. ay. Md. divd. Va ay. N. C. ay- S. C. ay. Geo. ay. [Ayes—8; -2; divided — 1.] noes To make war, to raise armies "to build and equip fleets amended to "declare war, to raise and support armies, to provide and maintain fleets" to which was added "to make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces. The next clause postponed. 12 In the New York Daily Advertiser of this date a report was mentioned that a project was in embryo for the establishment of a monarchy, at the head of which it was contemplated to place the Bishop of Osnaburgh (J. C. Hamilton, History of the Republic of the United States, III, 330). See further Appendix A, XLI, LXXXIX, XCII, CVII, CXVI. MONDAY, AUGUST 20, 1787. JOURNAL Monday August 20th. 1787. It was moved and seconded to refer the following propositions to the Committee of five. which passed in the affirmative. Each House shall be the Judge of it's own privileges, and shall have authority to punish by imprisonment every person violating the same: or who, in the place where the Legislature may be sitting and during the time of it's session, shall threaten any of it's members for any thing said or done in the House: or who shall assault any of them therefor—or who shall assault, or arrest any witness or other person ordered to attend either of the Houses in his way going or returning; or who shall rescue any person arrested by their order. Each Branch of the Legislature, as well as the supreme Executive shall have authority to require the opinions of the supreme Judicial Court upon important questions of law, and upon solemn occasions The privileges and benefit of the writ of habeas corpus shall be enjoyed in this government in the most expeditious and ample manner: and shall not be suspended by the Legislature except upon the most urgent and pressing occasions, and for a limited time not exceeding months. The liberty of the Press shall be inviolably preserved. No Troops shall be kept up in time of peace, but by consent of the Legislature The military shall always be subordinate to the civil power, and no grants of money shall be made by the Legislature for supporting military land forces for more than one year at a time |